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	<title>Comments on: Ideas take time. Farewell to Jordan.</title>
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	<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/</link>
	<description>How to Succeed in Evil is not a self-help page for the maladjusted. It it is the story of Edwin Windsor, Evil Efficiency Consultant. He&#039;s like Arthur Andersen for Supervillains.</description>
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		<title>By: Kristie Meyer</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-56711</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristie Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Reva</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-26691</link>
		<dc:creator>Reva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-26691</guid>
		<description>Note:  This is all one big long analysis of what -I- think Edwin is doing, and what he&#039;d probably be worrying about.  I could be totally off, but maybe it&#039;ll be helpful.  I can hope :)


Above, Danny suggested you look into other things that Edwin might want, and I think he was along the right track -- but, I think that introducing romance would be a hard thing to do unless handled very carefully, and that you can give him goals without going that far...yet.  Additionally, if Edwin did do romance, I think he would fall for someone he had respected for a good long time, and his/their feelings would sneak up on him for a long, long time before he noticed anything was going on.  If I were writing it, I&#039;d introduce that kind of character a long time before making the romance clear...but hey, that&#039;s my 2 cents.  Anyway!  End tangent.

I think that Topper, Edna, and Edwin&#039;s opinions of himself are the keys to keeping things interesting, making him human, and figuring out where he&#039;s going.  Let&#039;s start with Edwin and Edna.

Is Edwin happy with where he is in his life right now?  I think not...  He was thinking about Edna a lot, during the latter half of his supervillainy kick.  His entire villainous stint started right after Edna died -- as a reaction to his own sense of loss, to his anger at the world (and superheroes/villains in general) for taking Edna away from him.  The world went one step too far, he got angry, and so he reached out to -change- something.  ...but...why?

Edwin prides himself on being a reasonable and sensible man.  He plans everything out, step by step, letter by letter -- except for this.  Has he examined his own motives?  If he did, would he be happy with what he found?   I think not.  He got angry, and reacted in an over-the-top way because he could.

So.  Edwin likes having not only goals, but detailed Plans that lead to Solutions.  Has the entire stint at Omdemnity solved anything?  Does he even know what he was trying to solve -- whether it&#039;s the world&#039;s problems, his sense of loss, his frustration at life?  Or was it some confused combination of the above?  (I don&#039;t include money on that list, because I believe Edwin brilliant enough to make it other ways, that don&#039;t ruin his reputation and life, if he so chose.)

All of this is a long-winded way of bringing us around to the real question, one that Edwin himself knows quite well.  His golden rule, the one he told Topper time and time again in various ways, the one that I think he broke.

Did the benefits outweigh the costs?

If they didn&#039;t, how does he feel, being as &#039;stupid&#039; as any supervillain?  What does he have to do to -make- the benefits outweigh the costs, and whose benefits will those be?  He&#039;ll have an awfully long time to think about that, on some beach in the tropics..

Now, back to Topper.  How does he figure into all of this?  How does Edwin feel that his only quasi-friend sold him out, for money and glory?  How does Edwin feel about Topper now -- Annoyance?  Disgust?  Understanding?  Something else?  Does he still like the man?  What&#039;s he going to do about it?

And will he figure out what to do about Topper before or after he figures out his own motives?  ...if he does?

If something happens to Topper (either because of Edwin, or otherwise), Edwin is (probably) alone in this world again.  How would that make him feel?  How long has it been since he&#039;s been alone like that, if ever?  Would that sway his opinions of or actions to Topper, at all?

Edwin has a lot of soul-searching to do, I think.  It&#039;s one of the costs of having a brilliant character, especially one with a dark side.

...and, sidenote.  If my character analysis of Edwin, above, is on-the-spot...  Omdemnity may just be one of the most brilliantly over-the-top mid-life-crises ever, and wow would Edwin hate anyone noticing that.  Reading up on that topic might be a handy idea-generator, as well.

Loving the podcasts and looking forward to when they resume,
-Reva</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note:  This is all one big long analysis of what -I- think Edwin is doing, and what he&#8217;d probably be worrying about.  I could be totally off, but maybe it&#8217;ll be helpful.  I can hope <img src='http://succeedinevil.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Above, Danny suggested you look into other things that Edwin might want, and I think he was along the right track &#8212; but, I think that introducing romance would be a hard thing to do unless handled very carefully, and that you can give him goals without going that far&#8230;yet.  Additionally, if Edwin did do romance, I think he would fall for someone he had respected for a good long time, and his/their feelings would sneak up on him for a long, long time before he noticed anything was going on.  If I were writing it, I&#8217;d introduce that kind of character a long time before making the romance clear&#8230;but hey, that&#8217;s my 2 cents.  Anyway!  End tangent.</p>
<p>I think that Topper, Edna, and Edwin&#8217;s opinions of himself are the keys to keeping things interesting, making him human, and figuring out where he&#8217;s going.  Let&#8217;s start with Edwin and Edna.</p>
<p>Is Edwin happy with where he is in his life right now?  I think not&#8230;  He was thinking about Edna a lot, during the latter half of his supervillainy kick.  His entire villainous stint started right after Edna died &#8212; as a reaction to his own sense of loss, to his anger at the world (and superheroes/villains in general) for taking Edna away from him.  The world went one step too far, he got angry, and so he reached out to -change- something.  &#8230;but&#8230;why?</p>
<p>Edwin prides himself on being a reasonable and sensible man.  He plans everything out, step by step, letter by letter &#8212; except for this.  Has he examined his own motives?  If he did, would he be happy with what he found?   I think not.  He got angry, and reacted in an over-the-top way because he could.</p>
<p>So.  Edwin likes having not only goals, but detailed Plans that lead to Solutions.  Has the entire stint at Omdemnity solved anything?  Does he even know what he was trying to solve &#8212; whether it&#8217;s the world&#8217;s problems, his sense of loss, his frustration at life?  Or was it some confused combination of the above?  (I don&#8217;t include money on that list, because I believe Edwin brilliant enough to make it other ways, that don&#8217;t ruin his reputation and life, if he so chose.)</p>
<p>All of this is a long-winded way of bringing us around to the real question, one that Edwin himself knows quite well.  His golden rule, the one he told Topper time and time again in various ways, the one that I think he broke.</p>
<p>Did the benefits outweigh the costs?</p>
<p>If they didn&#8217;t, how does he feel, being as &#8217;stupid&#8217; as any supervillain?  What does he have to do to -make- the benefits outweigh the costs, and whose benefits will those be?  He&#8217;ll have an awfully long time to think about that, on some beach in the tropics..</p>
<p>Now, back to Topper.  How does he figure into all of this?  How does Edwin feel that his only quasi-friend sold him out, for money and glory?  How does Edwin feel about Topper now &#8212; Annoyance?  Disgust?  Understanding?  Something else?  Does he still like the man?  What&#8217;s he going to do about it?</p>
<p>And will he figure out what to do about Topper before or after he figures out his own motives?  &#8230;if he does?</p>
<p>If something happens to Topper (either because of Edwin, or otherwise), Edwin is (probably) alone in this world again.  How would that make him feel?  How long has it been since he&#8217;s been alone like that, if ever?  Would that sway his opinions of or actions to Topper, at all?</p>
<p>Edwin has a lot of soul-searching to do, I think.  It&#8217;s one of the costs of having a brilliant character, especially one with a dark side.</p>
<p>&#8230;and, sidenote.  If my character analysis of Edwin, above, is on-the-spot&#8230;  Omdemnity may just be one of the most brilliantly over-the-top mid-life-crises ever, and wow would Edwin hate anyone noticing that.  Reading up on that topic might be a handy idea-generator, as well.</p>
<p>Loving the podcasts and looking forward to when they resume,<br />
-Reva</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Steeves</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-25624</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Steeves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-25624</guid>
		<description>As one aspiring writer to another (though admittedly, you&#039;re further down the road than I) I&#039;ve found that the biggest way to get a reader emotionally invested in a character is suffering. Harry Potter starts out as a kid in a miserable situation and the readers reach out to him. Although, it&#039;s difficult to have Edwin suffer too much, since part of his charm is how fericely intelligent he is. I imagine his suffering is probably born from the fools around him. I don&#039;t know, I really enjoy what you&#039;ve done so far, just tossing my two cents in.

-Andrew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one aspiring writer to another (though admittedly, you&#8217;re further down the road than I) I&#8217;ve found that the biggest way to get a reader emotionally invested in a character is suffering. Harry Potter starts out as a kid in a miserable situation and the readers reach out to him. Although, it&#8217;s difficult to have Edwin suffer too much, since part of his charm is how fericely intelligent he is. I imagine his suffering is probably born from the fools around him. I don&#8217;t know, I really enjoy what you&#8217;ve done so far, just tossing my two cents in.</p>
<p>-Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-25616</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 04:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-25616</guid>
		<description>I think your comments are very insightful. You&#039;ve nailed what I&#039;ve come to understand. Edwin is a main character, but not a protagonist. Very much like the Sandman in the comics of the same name. 

I&#039;m 30k words into a proper novel (extending to 80k-100k) which is why there have been no new podcasts recently. I swear, I&#039;ll put  a proper post up about this soon, but it&#039;s kind of like a pregnancy. You don&#039;t want to announce a novel until you&#039;re sure it will take ;-) 

So here&#039;s a question for you. If you had to pick a conventional hero that Edwin was most like - Novel not film -who you would you pick? 

I think James Bond. I&#039;m trying to write a James Bond novel with no mi6 or England. But essentially it&#039;s one refined guy and a really weird nemesis per book.

But hey, hell if I know. It&#039;s my first time at bat.

Thanks (really) for giving it some thought. And don&#039;t apologise for the mainstream reference. I don&#039;t know why academia is so screwed up, but it&#039;s important to remember that people like Cervantes and Shakespeare wrote to be popular and to make money. And for my dime, Stephen King is going to outlast Don Dillio -- no problem.

--P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your comments are very insightful. You&#8217;ve nailed what I&#8217;ve come to understand. Edwin is a main character, but not a protagonist. Very much like the Sandman in the comics of the same name. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m 30k words into a proper novel (extending to 80k-100k) which is why there have been no new podcasts recently. I swear, I&#8217;ll put  a proper post up about this soon, but it&#8217;s kind of like a pregnancy. You don&#8217;t want to announce a novel until you&#8217;re sure it will take <img src='http://succeedinevil.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>So here&#8217;s a question for you. If you had to pick a conventional hero that Edwin was most like &#8211; Novel not film -who you would you pick? </p>
<p>I think James Bond. I&#8217;m trying to write a James Bond novel with no mi6 or England. But essentially it&#8217;s one refined guy and a really weird nemesis per book.</p>
<p>But hey, hell if I know. It&#8217;s my first time at bat.</p>
<p>Thanks (really) for giving it some thought. And don&#8217;t apologise for the mainstream reference. I don&#8217;t know why academia is so screwed up, but it&#8217;s important to remember that people like Cervantes and Shakespeare wrote to be popular and to make money. And for my dime, Stephen King is going to outlast Don Dillio &#8212; no problem.</p>
<p>&#8211;P</p>
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		<title>By: BenR</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-25593</link>
		<dc:creator>BenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-25593</guid>
		<description>I have only recently returned to this website, doesn&#039;t seem like much has changed, I hope I havn&#039;t missed anything.

It just occured to me that maybe Edwin is not a main chracter. He seems to me like the character Captain Jack Sparrow in the Pirates Of The Carribean films. By that I mean he is not likeable or easy to connect with. The audience doesn&#039;t care for his wellbeing, at least not consistantly. His attraction comes through being unpredictable and clashing with the main characters, and therefore the audiences, own views and opinions. That is why Jack was entertaining in the first film, he darted through the nrrative while not being quite entirely involved.

The mistake they made in the second film (I havn&#039;t seen the third) was trying to make Jack central to the plot. We didn&#039;t care for him, it exposed too many of his worse qualities (which had comfortably been at arms length in the first film) and requiring him to be surprising meant the plot created was difficult or rediculous to follow.

I feel you have created a clever and unusual character. You have also begun to create a world, with its own style, that could become an ideal setting for many adventures. 

However, I think that Edwin shouldn&#039;t necessarily be at the center of these adventures, instead being an influential secondary character at odds with, but possibly somehow helping on occasion, a kinder more emotional character the audience will relate to. It&#039;s a difficult balance.

I apoligise for using such a mainstream and simple example like Pirates Of The Carribean, I havn&#039;t read much lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have only recently returned to this website, doesn&#8217;t seem like much has changed, I hope I havn&#8217;t missed anything.</p>
<p>It just occured to me that maybe Edwin is not a main chracter. He seems to me like the character Captain Jack Sparrow in the Pirates Of The Carribean films. By that I mean he is not likeable or easy to connect with. The audience doesn&#8217;t care for his wellbeing, at least not consistantly. His attraction comes through being unpredictable and clashing with the main characters, and therefore the audiences, own views and opinions. That is why Jack was entertaining in the first film, he darted through the nrrative while not being quite entirely involved.</p>
<p>The mistake they made in the second film (I havn&#8217;t seen the third) was trying to make Jack central to the plot. We didn&#8217;t care for him, it exposed too many of his worse qualities (which had comfortably been at arms length in the first film) and requiring him to be surprising meant the plot created was difficult or rediculous to follow.</p>
<p>I feel you have created a clever and unusual character. You have also begun to create a world, with its own style, that could become an ideal setting for many adventures. </p>
<p>However, I think that Edwin shouldn&#8217;t necessarily be at the center of these adventures, instead being an influential secondary character at odds with, but possibly somehow helping on occasion, a kinder more emotional character the audience will relate to. It&#8217;s a difficult balance.</p>
<p>I apoligise for using such a mainstream and simple example like Pirates Of The Carribean, I havn&#8217;t read much lately.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-25243</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-25243</guid>
		<description>Fodder for the &quot;sucking the reader in&quot; concept.  If you want to explore that moment in a novel when the reader commits to follow the story to its end, you need to read Italo Calvino&#039;s &quot;if on a winters night, a traveler...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fodder for the &#8220;sucking the reader in&#8221; concept.  If you want to explore that moment in a novel when the reader commits to follow the story to its end, you need to read Italo Calvino&#8217;s &#8220;if on a winters night, a traveler&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Horn</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-21567</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-21567</guid>
		<description>I really enjoy both your stories and your reflections on the process. 

One way to establish more empathy might be to give Edwin something new to want. He wants money, and he wants to be smarter than everybody else. But both of those come fairly easy to him -- he&#039;s already smarter, and that brings in the money.

So it would be interesting to see him wanting something that he can&#039;t get just by out-thinking it. What&#039;s outside of his control? That list can include natural disasters or health problems, but I think the most interesting would be love. 

What would happen if Edwin fell in love? Would he pursue it with the same fierce tenacity, or would he see it as a weakness? Who would he fall in love with -- a superhero, a villain, a government agent, a bystander?

Adding romance to a story is a cliche, but it works because it&#039;s part of the human condition. Without friendship and love, we&#039;re just automatons, striving for our own self-improvement. Edwin&#039;s been betrayed by the only person who he might possibly consider a friend. Does that mean he&#039;ll be alone forever?

Just some thoughts... I&#039;ll look forward to seeing what you come up with next.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoy both your stories and your reflections on the process. </p>
<p>One way to establish more empathy might be to give Edwin something new to want. He wants money, and he wants to be smarter than everybody else. But both of those come fairly easy to him &#8212; he&#8217;s already smarter, and that brings in the money.</p>
<p>So it would be interesting to see him wanting something that he can&#8217;t get just by out-thinking it. What&#8217;s outside of his control? That list can include natural disasters or health problems, but I think the most interesting would be love. </p>
<p>What would happen if Edwin fell in love? Would he pursue it with the same fierce tenacity, or would he see it as a weakness? Who would he fall in love with &#8212; a superhero, a villain, a government agent, a bystander?</p>
<p>Adding romance to a story is a cliche, but it works because it&#8217;s part of the human condition. Without friendship and love, we&#8217;re just automatons, striving for our own self-improvement. Edwin&#8217;s been betrayed by the only person who he might possibly consider a friend. Does that mean he&#8217;ll be alone forever?</p>
<p>Just some thoughts&#8230; I&#8217;ll look forward to seeing what you come up with next.</p>
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		<title>By: JaerBesan</title>
		<link>http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/comment-page-1/#comment-21534</link>
		<dc:creator>JaerBesan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://succeedinevil.com/2007/09/17/ideas-take-time-farewell-to-jordan/#comment-21534</guid>
		<description>The Wheel of Time series has been my bread and butter of reading material for a long, long time.  Only when I accidentally stumbled across HtSiE, and a few other podcasted works, that Jordan&#039;s literary spell on me broke.  It takes time and effort to break such a spell.  

Edwin is a fabulous character.  Rushing stories out without getting them right would damage his reputation.  Edwin would not stand for that!  Take your time.  I can wait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wheel of Time series has been my bread and butter of reading material for a long, long time.  Only when I accidentally stumbled across HtSiE, and a few other podcasted works, that Jordan&#8217;s literary spell on me broke.  It takes time and effort to break such a spell.  </p>
<p>Edwin is a fabulous character.  Rushing stories out without getting them right would damage his reputation.  Edwin would not stand for that!  Take your time.  I can wait.</p>
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